Live: Underoath/Thursday/A Skylit Drive/Animals As Leaders
ED. NOTE: After we published this article, one of the weworemasks team alleged that this piece plagiarized a review of the same show over on the WWM site. We respectfully disagree and assert that the work here was created solely by our writer, other than the setlist, which was taken from the Absolutepunk.net site and was not properly attributed.
However, in the interest of fairness, we’d like to point people who are interested to the corresponding piece on the WWM site, located here: http://weworemasks.com/2011/01/21/show-recap-underoaththursday-january-20-2011/. Read both and form your own opinion.
WAREHOUSE LIVE — 1/20/2011: We arrived at Warehouse Live at around 5PM — we had an interview with Chris from Underoath at 6PM — but wanted to be there a bit early. It was freezing outside and it definitely felt like winter. After La June and I finally interviewed Chris, the doors had already opened, so we preceded to enter.
Animals As Leaders were up first; I remembered their set from the Circa Survive show in October, but this time they seemed to to be getting a better response. An intense amount of energy was flowing; definitely a good starter. At this point, the venue was still far from full.
A Skylit Drive began the tour with Underoath and Thursday here in Houston. And even though they had a challenging set filled with technical difficulties and an unsatisfied audience, they were giving it their all. The first two songs were definitely not a good start for them, with microphones turning off, the guitarist falling, and people booing. But of course there were also the fans who were enjoying every moment of it.
I overheard people say they’d rather go back outside and freeze to death instead of sitting through A Skylit Drive’s set, and there was no exaggeration added — just being brutally honest. After they were finally done, Warehouse was reaching full capacity. This was mainly an older crowd, nothing like the younger Skylit Drive fans.
To celebrate the 10th anniversary of their 2001 release Full Collapse, Thursday played the album in its entirety. They immediately got down to business, wasting no time. The New Jersey sextet sped through the album and, unlike the previous sets that night, the whole thing was amazing. Frontman/vocalist Geoff Rickly managed that mic like a pro, swinging it around and giving us a great show.
Along with the rest of the band, he hypnotized the crowd for about an hour. Thursday definitely know how to hype up a crowd. With little or no time to talk, all we heard from Geoff was, “Thank you for the great years,” and, “We don’t really like ‘Wind-Up,’ but we’re gonna play it anyway.” Even though the years have passed and times have changed quite a bit, Thursday has just as much energy as they ever did.
The crowd went insane when the lights went dim and we caught a glimpse of vocalist Spencer Chamberlain. When Underoath finally took the stage, it was what we had all been waiting for. Their set was filled with a light show, with very colorful dim lights. Like most of their previous shows, they featured the projection screen with silent videos playing as they performed.
The first three songs were a great hit with the crowd — it was an outstanding start for them and definitely got everyone excited. To watch a band that I’ve seen grow, change, and progress throughout the years is very intense, especially as you watch them do what many thought wouldn’t be possible. They definitely didn’t sound like the Underoath we were used to hearing — yes, very different, but not bad at all.
Just like people, a band grows, influences change, people, song inspirations, and, heck, even drummers change. The band’s music most surely reflected those developments. Many fans that have followed them through their long path of change didn’t expect Spencer to do such a great job with the melodious singing. I personally thought his voice had gotten way better; he was hitting notes I didn’t even know he could hit. He was also screaming better than I’ve heard him scream before.
Aside from playing “In Division” and “Paper Lung,” along with others from their new record, Disambiguation, Underoath played some of our old favorites like “A Boy Brushed Red…” and “It’s Dangerous Business Walking Out Your Front Door.” Seems like every live set with them gets better every time. With drummer Aaron Gillespie no longer in the picture, many thought they wouldn’t do as great as they usually do, but they’re wrong!
Spencer more than mastered the notes, and for the drums, former Norma Jean drummer Daniel Davison took over with even better drumming than Aaron. Underoath’s a very admirable band; they manage to turn any bad situation around and come out on top even after such issues occur. Overall, they played enough new music to make you fall in love with their new album and enough old songs to bring back memories of old Underoath and keep their fans happy.
I know many fans will dislike me for this, but I didn’t even notice Aaron was gone; Daniel killed on the drums and Spencer mastered those melodic notes. The only thing that was missing was Spencer’s usual talkative ways. On the Cool tour, he was so pumped and getting the crowd involved, but this time around he just seemed quiet; even still, it didn’t stop it from being an outstanding show. END
Set-lists:
[THURSDAY]
Full Collapse
[UNDEROATH]
In Regards to Myself
Breathing in a New Mentality
In Division
It’s Dangerous Business
Catch Myself Catching Myself
The Created Void
Paper Lung
To Whom It May Concern
Moving for the Sake of Motion
A Divine Eradication
Boy Brushed Red
Who Will Guard the Guardians
Illuminator
Writing on the Walls
Photo #1: Michael Jagmin (A Skylit Drive); Photo #2: Geoff Rickly (Thursday); Photo #3: Spencer Chamberlain (Underoath). Photos by Ana Pacheco. Underoath setlist taken from Absolutepunk.net.
http://weworemasks.com/2011/01/21/show-recap-underoaththursday-january-20-2011/
Ana, Ana, Ana….sorry honey but you got caught. Own it, learn from it, and move forward. No need to look up my IP address, I am a WWM frequent visitor and supporter. With that being said, I respect that Jeremy is standing behind his writers but, Ana…swallow dick & die. Look at all the headache you’ve caused your employer by denying your own faults. I don’t really want you to die but you can swallow dick…And most importantly, learn from this mishap.
-You’re putting words in my mouth. Sounds pretty familiar…
I Never said that Ana’s an evil mastermind. She seems like a good writer, and good writers know where to get information from.
I never said she wasn’t at the show.
I never said that the similarities weren’t crucial to the content of the article or not.
Your arguments saying such things are pointless.
-And yes, to post on your site – whether it’s a volunteer site or not – is a big deal to a lot of writers, especially in the music aspect of it. There are a lot of blogs and magazines that don’t pay (such as weworemasks), but the opportunity is still there. Whether it serves as a direct stepping stone or to use samples for her writing portfolio/resume is a big deal. Writer always strive to have their “own” work published in some form. To think otherwise is absurd.
Playing the “we’re a small volunteer site” role is obsolete, because there are hundreds of blogs out there that are similar.
-Even in a “opinion piece” you’re going to need to have some facts and research to back up what you’re say. Simply suggesting that it is an opinion doesn’t mean that she’ll look to another person’s work, and then paraphrase on her own.
-Yea that Google search did show Matthew Keever’s article as the #2 result. Why didn’t she use things from his article? I don’t know, ask her. But as my previous comment mentioned: “Most plagiarism uses bits and pieces in the paper.” Means that she could have used things from one source, but not the other. The point I illustrated with the Google search, was that the weworemasks article was on the first page of the search. I’m not saying she didn’t form her own thoughts, saying that the sentence structure was way too similar just to be a “coincidence.” As for why she used one over the other? I’ll go back to the “bits and pieces” point.
You’re still missing the point: Ana had literally *no* reason to plagiarize anything, from anybody. Period. No money involved, very little prestige, not even much in the way of resume padding. She was already writing the article; what would ripping off a few lines from somebody else’s writeup *get* her, in the end? That’s why I asked if the “similarities” were crucial — it’s not like she would’ve read the WWM post and said, “ooh, yeah — I’ve gotta use that!”
There would’ve been zero benefit to plagiarizing somebody else’s work for this article. That’s why I made the “evil mastermind” comment, because honestly, that’s the only way any of these would make sense; going by what you’ve said, not only is she able to weave other people’s writing into her own, but she’s doing it just for the sheer, nefarious fun of it.
As I said in previous responses to various people, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want (obviously). From where I’m sitting, however, I’m looking at two separate pieces that definitely have some similarities — all of which make sense considering that both writers *saw the same show* — but are otherwise pretty darn different.
Look, y’all: I’m going to let this one go by, but I *will* delete any comments that are abusive. Keep it civil.
If you weren’t such a bitch this wouldn’t be a problem. Hire some people that are willing to write and act professional instead of some kid that can’t do shit on her own.
I don’t know the first thing about what journalism jobs entail. So if they don’t really ask for “what kind of work do you have?” or “do you have specific examples of what your writing looks like?” then I’m sorry.
But going on the assumption that they do ask those questions, even though she is getting nothing out of it, when she puts on her resume that she has written for spacecityrock.com, they are going to ask what kind of writing she did for the website. Especially at 19 years old, when she will be given many opportunities to write.
As far as using the weworemasks article as an “evil mastermind” type of situation: the sentences that were copied and switched around were used as a transition type situation. People add the little parts as filler or transition. These fillers and transitions are quite important, especially if a writer wants their reader to keep reading. And even if the entire article is not plagiarized, by comparing the two articles you can see distinct similarities (and not coincidences). The writing style of people are different, and even if there is similar content, the way it is presented is in a different way. Plagiarism is still plagiarism, whether it is one sentence, or an entire passage.
Again, I dare you to find an English teacher that says otherwise.
WWM-500
SCR- 0
Finally, you’ve set up your own poll. i was wondering how many comments from my asshole friends it would take for you guys to try and make a public case of this.
For the record, my vote goes to “ripped off.”
Poll? I’m not making a public case for this — in fact, I’ve resisted any urge to do that, because I don’t see this as a my-website-beats-your-website competition. (Unlike you, apparently.) I haven’t posted about this separately, and I’m definitely not trying to get people to “outvote” you. Frankly, I’m beyond caring what the “votes” would be; just because a bunch of people vote for something doesn’t make it a reality.
Hell, I figured you’d be happy we at least acknowledged the dispute in the article itself, rather than in the comments, and linked directly to your article in the process. But hey, how you want to take it’s up to you. Have fun…
When are you going to just recognize that your site is a
piece of shit?
I just wanted to comment from the point of view of another music writer. I work for a music website myself, and I’ve worked for other sites in the past. After reading both articles (hell, I read them both twice), I honestly think this “Ana” may have needed some inspiration or better phrases, so she figured she would do a quick google for other show reviews. I’m saying that this seems very similar to WWM’s article. This isn’t some coincidence. I can honestly say that I have googled show reviews before to either find a set list to help me with the review or maybe see what other people wrote about it (usually smaller, local publications). This just seems too damn similar to dismiss as a coincidence. I wouldn’t doubt if she were to look up the set list and somehow found WWM’s article on the same subject and decided she would use some of their better written phrases as her own. Sure, they aren’t exact phrases, and sure, the whole article may not be an exact rip off of WWM’s article. I just don’t think you guys (“Ana” or Jeremy) realize how damn similar these actually are.
Also, plagiarism is taking someone elses words or thoughts and using them as your own without credit. That doesn’t mean it has to be taken word for word. If she did in fact copy these phrases, you are taking WWM’s “thoughts” and using them as your own. I think I’ve had enough first day class lectures on plagiarism to know what it is.
I think the world “poll” was incorrect. I apologize for my misuse of that word. What I did mean was “public recognition” and something to spark even more debate. I definitely (totally serious, here) appreciate that fact.
I just find it hilarious this guy is trying to compare some broad who JUST turned 19 and probably has a couple of days of college under her belt to a 24 year old man who has already graduated from school with a DEGREE in journalism.
sorry, but jeremy, ana, and this blog are full of shit. delete my comment if you wish. I respect the fact that you’re trying to have Ana’s back, but there really is no comparison. I agree with Dylan and think she probably googled the show trying to come up with ideas.
either way, it was a horrible attempt at trying to steal someone else’s hard earned work. I’ve been following WWM since the day it started and I have never, ever come across an article they have written that sounds like another article. nor have I ever seen that ANYWHERE out of the years I’ve been reading show reviews. I honestly think your decision to keep the article makes you and your blog look bad and is distasteful.
Ha ha. You got caught stealing shit. How much did you get
paid for jacking someone’s work. Better yet, what did you do with
the time you saved yourself by not writing a few simple sentences.
WWM crew is on it. Suck it, ya filthy rats. 768, OUT!
I used to write about music for a few publications online
and off- and I’m confident that my editors would be unsettled by
the similarities between the two pieces. In another era, it’d be
easier to write this off as coincidence. Since we instead live in
the Google era, writers have immediate access to other people’s
prose, which is a central reason students these days cheat so
often. If high school students are savvy enough to weave stolen
ideas/sentences into their own work to jazz up and flesh out their
own writing, even in a subtle or trivial way, then it’s not a
stretch to imagine a young writer relying on similar logic. It’s
still wrong, even if it’s not a mortal sin, and it does seem to be
what’s going on here. The writer (and site) should simply own up to
it, apologize, and life can go on.
I saw the liink to this post on wwm site. I have to say I
have been a wwm reader for a few months and it really upset me how
immature griz is being. He was rude to me and insulted me! And I am
one of the people who used to actually care about what his drunk
ass had to Fuckiin say. I loved this artiicle and think ana
deserves a bit more crediit. Whether she copied or not is
irrelevant because this article is way better than anything Griz
has ever written. Degree or not he is a biased cocky idiot, no
wonder he hasn’t gotten anywhere with his stupid degree.
just like you’re not going to get anywhere either, nickkii, because you can’t spell! yay!
Nicki’s comment is beautiful, eloquent prose and should be taken as such. Nicki with two Is, let me tell you something: My journalism degree hasn’t done anything for me because you know, I can only go down with it. It’s a harsh world out there. I’m sure you’re unaware, as you’re probably a youngster who’s still in college fucking off on your parents’ dime.
Chew on this for a bit:
1. The Houston Chronicle is the biggest publication in Houston.
2. The Daily Cougar is the University of Houston’s leading publication.
3. 29-95 is an entertainment magazine funded by the Houston Chronicle.
Now what do they all have in common? I WORKED FOR ALL OF THEM. I was laid off from the Chronicle (after the 2.5 years I was employed by them) because if they kept me for 2 months, they would’ve had to pay me a salary. I’m sure it was a matter of budgeting and the fact that it pained them so much to pay a freshly graduated student.
I did plenty of work over at The Daily Cougar and had my fair share of articles. I also ran a weekly column.
29-95? I helped start it. Granted, I was laid off before the website took off, but those guys can vouch for me.
weworemasks.com is not the biggest nor the best in anything, but is a prominent Houston blog whether you like it or not. Our traffic speaks for itself.
So my resume is doing fine. There are clearly no good journalism jobs out there for me for whatever reason – be it that I suck at searching, they don’t exist, or they’re not hiring. Come back to me and tell me Ana’s writing on this ripped-off, half wit version of my article is better than anything I’ve EVVVVVVVVVVVVVER written after Ana’s held positions with all of those publications.
Except for weworemasks, of course. I’d never hire her.
For the record, I hated writing this post. It doesn’t help my image of a “biased cocky idiot” but you pushed my hand Nickii. You made me gloat when I didn’t want to!
I pray to Grizzly at night. I pray to his writing and I
worship this Indian foo. Fuck Ana.
Listen ms.Kat. This has nothing to do with you,! But fyi I spell the way ii do because ii want to! Not because ii cant spell. Iits a choiice, get straiight giirlfriiend! And how legiit are the wwm accusations when griiz clearly saiid iin hiis last post that he sent his friends to ruin this article. If all these people making the same accusations are his friends of course they are all going to post the same stufffffffff! Im looking at thiis from a non biased reader! And you guys at wwm are all assholes and insult your own fuckiin readers! So fuck you wwm! And fuck you kat! That cocky attitude will get you nowhere.
first off, my “cocky” attitude has landed me my dream job and got me quite far in my years. but thanks! once again, learn how to spell and people will start to take you seriously!
secondly, I’ve been friends with grizz for years and have told him plenty of times if his shit sucks or not. if I felt this chicks article was better, I’d tell him that. I have no reason to take his side simply because he’s my friend. I’m sure grizz could agree with me on this. even if I didn’t know grizz personally and came across this all on my own, I would still think this chick ripped off his article… just as many of my friends and other people who don’t even know grizz or anything about WWM thought themselves.
either way, I’m sick of you commenting and I’m sick of your spelling. so please do yourself a favor and STOP commenting. no one here is taking you seriously and everyone is laughing at you!
Honestly, Niiiiiiiiiiiiiickiiiiiiiiiiiii, I sent about 17
people here, because that’s all FB would allow me to send in one
message. The rest of them came out of their own free will, and I
can’t tell you who half of the comments are from. My brother and 2
of my cousins are also in here. Outside of that, these people saw
the post and felt the need to speak out on my behalf. I don’t
insult my readers. I didn’t insult you because you were my reader.
I insulted you because you type like a 16-year-old Jonas Brothers
fanatic and the fact that you were talking shit about my article on
my website, and assumed I was humiliating myself. Naturally, my
defenses for my work go up, and your atrocious internet
personality/typing preferences are simply too fucking easy of a
shot to pass up. I apologized immediately after being an asshole,
yet you’re still whining and bitching like a small child. Us guys
at weworemasks ARE assholes. We don’t give a shit about any and
everyone except the people who come visit our website, support it
by reading it and the artists that we post about and work with. If
a few people along the way think we’re full of shit, so be it. I’d
rather not have fickle, impressionable teenagers reading our shit
anyway. It’s not about cocky attitudes, it’s about being straight
up and up front about your attitudes and behavior? So fuck me and
fuck Kat? Fine, it’d be your pleasure anyhow. And for the record,
Kat has no problem being a B to me. We’ve been friends for a long
time, and she’s called me a piece of shit/asshole/jerk-off so many
times. She wouldn’t hesitate to call me any of those for this
situation either. LUV U
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
BAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
yo… your site blows … stop copying wwm… shits weak, shits WIZ-EAK!
Weworemasks is posted on AbsolutePunk.net pretty
frequently. Shit, I’m on AP.net every few months AT THE MOST, and I
know of WWM exclusively through AP.net. I find it highly unlikely
that Ana could be a member of AP.net (the setlist came from their
site), without ever having heard of WWM. Just sayin’.
[Comment added by weworemasks:]
got an email about Wuffle’s comment, yet it’s no where to be found here…
There is a new comment on the post “Live: Underoath/Thursday/A Skylit Drive/Animals As Leaders”.
http://www.spacecityrock.com/2011/01/25/live-underoaththursdaya-skylit-drive-animals-as-leaders/
Author: Wuffle
Comment:
Weworemasks is posted on AbsolutePunk.net pretty
frequently. Shit, I’m on AP.net every few months AT THE MOST, and I
know of WWM exclusively through AP.net. I find it highly unlikely
that Ana could be a member of AP.net (the setlist came from their
site), without ever having heard of WWM. Just sayin’.
…ha.
Grizzly: Wuffle’s comment wasn’t displayed because we’re in the process of moving from one ISP to another. He (she?) posted it after the old ISP did the backup of the site and before the new ISP brought the site back online & we switched over the nameservers.
Sorry, no conspiracy — just hadn’t restored the WP database backup ’til this evening.
It’s probably the case that people should be ashamed, on one hand, of light plagiarism and, on the other, the more or less juvenile and unpleasant response to light plagiarism. The biggest source of shame to all parties, however, should be that the cause of all this hyperventilating is Underoath and Thursday, the music of which I’d long and happily forgotten.